Monday, September 14, 2009

more teabaggers

Uninformed. Ignorant. Biased. Absurd. Illogical.


Anonymous Jack said...

Biased is right. This video is ridiculous in its biased. Yes, there are some ignorant people among these parties- just as there were some ignorant people among the anti-war protests (I know- I was there when I tried to defend a protestor from the other side from getting physically attacked by some dumbass "anti-war" protestors in 2003.) And I'm glad that we are reminded that there are some ignorant people out there.

At the same time- this video was obviously doctored for propaganda purposes. Of the tens of thousands of people there not a single person they interviewed was logical? Really? I know that's not true because I am a professor at a major university and I was among them. If this video was at least fair in its presentation, I would be more sympathetic, but the fact is they obviously edited out anyone who was logical for their own purposes, and that destroys any amount of credibility they would otherwise have.

I'm sorry, Lynette, I really thought you were a bit more open-minded than that. But I guess we are all susceptible to the propaganda we want to believe. I urge you to post a video that shows the other side as well.

That said, not all of these images are terrible. Some of them are beautiful. People marching peacefully demanding accountability from their government is a good thing. as a former resident of Russia, I will always celebrate that.

September 14, 2009 9:27 PM  
Anonymous lynette said...

Find me a video showing the other side at these lunatic protests. I'll post it.

September 14, 2009 10:08 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

Here's one. Starting around the 6:00 mark, especially, there are some interviews with folks who express explicitly that this is not a Democratic/Republican thing. It is a matter of too much debt, unsound money and a corrupt government. These people are genuinely concerned about the future of their kids.

September 14, 2009 10:42 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

Here's another one, from Washington this time:

I like this video because it shows a much more accurate picture of the march. It includes a couple nuts (Stephen Baldwin included), but mostly smart, concerned people who are upset with both Bush and Obama for the massive debts they are creating.

I hope you will post and watch this one.

September 14, 2009 10:49 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

here is a great write-up from a former Vietnam war protestor who expresses sympathy for tea party protestors, noting that the media will distort them because they are just another propaganda machine for the established powers. The sad thing is, this former protestor has allb ut given up on the impact citizens can have on their government because of all the distortions he suffered through.

By perpetuating the myth of all tea partiers being nutjobs, Lynette, you are aiding and abetting the corporate powers that control our society. I hope you will rethink your position, and at least be more balanced in your postings regarding the legitimate concerns of many of those expressing their first amendment rights.

September 14, 2009 10:55 PM  
Blogger Debbi said...

You wrote:

"Uninformed. Ignorant. Biased. Absurd. Illogical."

You forgot "White."

The underlying issue in all of the right-wing conservative hatespeak is racial prejudice. They don't want a black president to succeed and they'll do anything and everything they can think of – logic be damned – to stir up trouble. I'm disgusted and ashamed.

September 15, 2009 6:40 AM  
Anonymous Jack said...

You should watch the link of the video posted above (Lynette- I thought you said you'd post it?) There are a few black people at the tea parties interviewed. While there are some racists there (unfortunately), the underlying motivation of the majority is not racially based at all, and you are asserting so falsely and ignorantly.

September 15, 2009 9:21 AM  
Blogger Big Fella said...

In the context is discussing the demise of newspapers in this nation, Michael Moore recently said:

We live in a nation of 40 million functional illiterates: that's 40 million adults who cannot read and write above a fourth grade or fifth grade level. We have another probably 40 million adults who can read and write above a fourth grade level but don't have the comprehension beyond that very much.

I would imagine the teabaggers is the same group of people Moore was talking about.

September 15, 2009 1:41 PM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

I watched the video Jack referred to (9/14/2009 @ 10:42) and I can't say I'm feel any different about the teabaggers than I did before.

When I see and hear people talking the "CURRENT" (yes, those are quotes from the video) administration (obviously referring to Obama) in regard to what they're protesting, when I see people with signs or making statements comparing Obama to Hitler or saying they don't want to live in Moscow (two things I know I've seen on TV though whether or not they're in the video I couldn't tell you since I wasn't looking for it), when I see other signs that reference "change" I'm left with the uneasy feeling there's a clear agenda being promoted. And that agenda, it seems to me, is anti-Obama. That's the message I - an older white man - am seeing. Our first black president.

September 15, 2009 6:46 PM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

(continued due to commenting length restrictions)

The feeling I also get, sadly, is that some number of these people would rather see Obama fail even if it means bad things to come for this country. Did Rush Limbaugh not say as much?

When I see civility completely disappear as it has in town hall meetings (and being compared to something one would see on the Jerry Springer show) and we're blanketed with nonsense about death panels (coming from a vice-presidential candidate who is both a has-been AND a wannabee) not to mention Obama in white face (the joker? yeah, right) I am left with the very strong feeling that political subterfuge is afoot.

All of this nonsense is the new "front" of the Republican party. After the Bush administration and his cronies in Congress (when they held ALL the cards) fucked us thoroughly the Republicans have no choice to slip us a high hard one by coming in the back door. In none of what I see on TV or on the Web in regard to the so-called Teabaggers do I see any blame placed where it belongs: on George W. Bush and the aforementioned cronies (aka the Republican Party)? The reason I say "new front" is because the Republicans know that the rest of America (non-Teabaggers) wants no part of the Republican plan and is unlikely to want any part of it any time soon. A destroyed economy, one completey unnecessary war and one that was questionable (neither of which Rumsfeld waged effectively), a compromised Justice Department, the NSA doing Bush's dirty work (spying on the American people - who seem not to mind that as much as "change" if we were to believe what we're told) and an American reputation in tatters (with all the good will directed at us by the rest of the world after the tragedy of 9/11 up in smoke).

Is it not true that - regardless of what you think of him otherwise - Bill Clinton left us economically in the black? Is it not true that the party known for promoting small goverment and low taxes did just the opposite weighing us down with Big Brother, war and economic ruin? If you agree that's so, why would you blame a man who's been president only since January 20, 2009 for our problems? How does he undo what George Bush spent eight years doing? Where were your protests and your town hall meetings then?

I also find it interesting there's some news that perhaps the economic outlook is getting better with improved auto sales (cash for clunkers?), improving retail (I would think statistics would bear that out one way or the other) and, as I understand it, a profit coming in from banks paying back their loans plus interest. Is that true? If so, that's sounds pretty good to me and, to be honest, I'm still skeptical about how this is all going but I don't see the need to act batshit crazy. But then I suspect some people are not acting.

If things really are getting better should Obama not being praised instead of demonized?

All things considered I'm left with the overwhelming feeling that what we're seeing is business as usual but in a worse than usual way. The lies are bigger and the bullshit's deeper. And considering the attacks on the our first black president the political scene make be taking a dark, dark turn for the worse. We've got a choice: we can be our better selves or we can be the dirt-eating slime that some are bound and determined to become or already are.

I want to be a better person. And I want America to be a better country. It can happen but we'll have to turn away from the liars for that to happen. Do better, be better. It's the American way.

September 15, 2009 6:47 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

Either you did not watch the video or you did not listen very well. Almost everyone on that video blamed the Bush administration at least as equally, if not moreso, than the Obama administration for what they were upset about.

September 15, 2009 7:11 PM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

Well, that was fast. I thought sure it would be at least 40 minutes before you replied. It's like you're on a mission or something.

Ok, I just sat and listened to the whole stupid thing again and heard NOT ONE reference to the Bush administration.

Since you told Lynette where to begin maybe you should tell me at what mark I can hear something like "it's Bush's fault".

I don't remember seeing a picture of Bush as the Joker but I guess a white man in white face sort of falls flat compared to a black man in white face.

Perhaps it would help if you told us something about the video. I'd noticed it said something about being in Indianapolis (though if someone watched it without noticing I could see where they MIGHT think they're seeing what was happening in DC this past Saturday).

While you're giving us background maybe you could tell us who did the filming, who asked the questions and how something that was posted five months ago is relevant to today. And I didn't even notice that it was posted five months ago until the second time through. Silly me, I was watching the video and listening to what people were saying instead of looking the page over.

So if it was POSTED five months ago when did it take place and why should I give a shit? We'll ignore comments about "the current administration" (which of course might suggest Obama).

Is this your evidence? Oh, please. Try and do better.

By the way, I visit Lynette's blog once in a while and I don't remember ever seeing you. Did I miss previous comments you made? Or did you just make your first visit recently? If so, how did you come to take an interest in her blog?

I'm very curious.

September 15, 2009 7:48 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

Maybe you're watching the wrong video. It was filmed on September 14, 2009 in Washington, DC. Here's the link again:

And here are some specific examples of blaming bipartisanly or the republicans:

00:46 (Bipartisan blame: Sign that says trade all of congress in)

01:35 (Bipartisan attack: she'd rather have the first 50 people in the phone book in the capital than the 50 Senators there now)

01:50 No specific administration named, only that the government is out of control

02:05 Man upset with bailout- which was a Bush initiative.

02:25 Man speaks about how this is a protest against big government.

03:45 Man speaks about how this is not a party thing at all, and most have not been involved iwth republicans or dmeocrats.

03:56 Man says what he's upset about (TARP/bailouts) started with the republicans

04:07 "It started under George Bush."

04:18 "I'm an independent. I turned in my Republican card"

04:25 "I'm a former Republican"

04:29 "I think most people wouldn't even classify themselves as Republicans anymore. They're so sick of the whole two party mess."

04:39 "Republicans doubled the national debt."

04:58 "The people we met with were upset with the way Republicans spent money."

05:11 "Drain the swamp and get rid of everybody."

05:17 "It's not whether you're a Democrat or a Republican."

05:28 "Everyone must go."

September 15, 2009 8:28 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

The video comes from Reason magazine. And, like the video posted by Lynette, of course has its own bias- in this case, a libertarian point of view. But if you go to reason's website- you'll see that the articles there are just as critical of the republicans and Bush as they are of Obama and the Democrats. So, I continue to stand by my assertion that this is not a partisan movement- it is a movement against big government in general, and a movement against the corporate powers that control our government and our media, which wants you to believe everyone at these rallies are ignorant backwater hicks in order to discredit the truth- when in fact, many, if not most of them ,are well-educated, non-partisan people concerned about leaving a massive debt to future generations.

September 15, 2009 8:32 PM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

Ok. I'll have yet another look. But I already don't see what I'm looking for. I want a direct reference to Bush. Is that too much to ask?

And you haven't answered any of the other questions. About the video (what does this video have to do with now considering when it was posted much less made (and who made it)) or the Lynette's blog (why ARE you here?).

And you're going to have to wait for my next response. About 6ish or 7ish tomorrow evening.

September 15, 2009 8:34 PM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

Ok. Now I see the video source cited.

I'll review and respond when I can.

And you still haven't explained why we're hearing this nonsense now. Was there teabagging prior to Obama's inauguration?

Or why you're here. There are lots of places that would, I'm sure, like to have this conversation. Treating Lynette's blog as if it were your personal soapbox seems as rude to me as visiting someone's home and presuming to lecture them. You still haven't said what brought you here otherwise.

September 15, 2009 8:39 PM  
Blogger Lynette said...

Jack/Anonymous, I think the point DC is making is that these people were silent during the Bush administration, when many of these atrocities began, but they're pouring into the streets now and yammering about taxes and a bunch of crap that hasn't even happened.

Here's where we agree, Anonymous: We have a corporate controlled government and that is to the detriment of real live human beings.

Your conservative Supreme Court ~ because you aren't really an Independent or even a Libertarian ~ is just about to relax rules reigning in corporate expenditures in campaigns. The Roberts court is going to allow unlimited cash contributions from the corporate world to our elected representatives.

The real problem with all of this health care crap is trying to find a way to appease the Owners ~ the corporatocracy ~ while still throwing a bone to the little people.

What I don't hear from any of these idiots ~ or you, Jack/Anonymous ~ is what's going to happen if we do NOT address health care.

We will be bankrupt on health care costs alone if we don't do something now. There is a limit to how out of control these costs can get.

The same people who are trying to protect their industry now, the health profiteers, the pharmaceutical robbers, will find themselves priced out of the market at some point because their products will just become unaffordable.

That will be a disaster for people, and for the corporations, but I haven't noticed any farsightedness among the Wall Street crowd of late.

For the record, Jack/Anonymous, I've watched your clips and I read your website with the Vietnam vet.

He had some good things to say and I'll continue to read that site. But I'll tell you that I'll take anything I read there with a couple of grains of salt given that the article just after his was singing the praises of Milton Friedman, an economist responsible for more suffering and agony and human misery than any other.

September 15, 2009 9:07 PM  
Blogger Lynette said...

Oh, and DC . . . It's Jack aka Anonymous. He can be found here on any number of threads adopting the same paternalistic, lecturing tone that he's putting forth here. I doubt he's who he says he is. I'm not sure how he got a burr under his saddle, but he's generally a pompous dick and contrary just for the sake of being so. Also a far right winger, despite his protestations to the contrary.

September 15, 2009 9:09 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

A far right winger? Absolutely not. If you insist on labeling me as something, I am a constitutional libertarian, but prefer not to be constrained by any political party, since, as George Washington rightly noted, political parties ultimately serve the party's interests, not the people's. Voted for George Bush in 2000 because he promised to be a humble leader. Got bamboozled on that one, and most assuredly did not vote for him in 2004. Voted for Obama in 2008 because he promised change. I'm figuring out I got bamboozled on that one too. I'll never claim to have made great voting choices, maybe I've been too eager to take politicians at their word in the past, but no longer.

I'm only here to provide another voice. We agree more than we disagree, and it did bother me that you had fallen victim to the false portrait painted by partisan interests about the tea parties. While the video you posted is good in that it reminds us of the ignorance out there, it was bad in that it did not also show that there are a lot of very good people involved with these protests too. That's why I hope you will still follow through with you promise above to post that video showing that there is a legitimate, educated side to the tea parties. It is not morally right to burden future generations with our debt for the sake of corporate greed.

The powers that be are trying to keep us divided. They know that if disparate political voices come to an agreement about the need to overhaul and reform the system as it now exists, they will be out of power. And so, they are using the same tricks now as they did when Bush was president. Back then, they painted the anti-war protestors as kooks, and only showed the idiots among them. Today, they portray the tea partiers as kooks and only show the idiots among them. I know, because I have been a part of both protests. By keeping us divided, they keep themselves in power. I refuse to be a part of that division.

September 15, 2009 9:28 PM  
Blogger ewe said...

Perhaps we might want to classify ourselves as Noam Chomsky does. FELLOW DERIVATIVE TRAVELERS!!!!

September 16, 2009 12:43 AM  
Anonymous A Washington, DC resident said...

Ok. I watched the video and as promoted it portrayed teabaggers as just plain folks (though it still carried the odious blanket condemnation of President Obama). Sure lip service was paid to the idea that Republicans, too, were bad bad bad (and not just the Democrats) but let's be serious here: this was Obama (and Democrat) bashing at it's worst.

I might add that the whole propaganda thing came across as a recruiting tool. It's as if the Libertarians (in this case the Reason Foundation) were having a membership drive via the teabaggers protest. Sort of the Libbies in cahoots with Dick Armey's army of dicks. You have to wonder who's zoomin' who here.

It just struck me as more likely propaganda than reality. Why should I assume that this wasn't contrived from beginning to end? Considering what we see in the news the video was a lot calmer than we've been led to believe of these people but I guess we're supposed to believe it's all because of the liberal media bias. Would that include Fox News?

What I found most ironic is that all this silly nonsense took place in a city where the residents really do have taxation without representation.

September 16, 2009 7:12 PM  
Anonymous A Canadian Reader said...

The ignorance of these people boggles the mind. In the link that Jack posted, all they can say is that they want to get rid of the government, kick everyone out, take back their country.

They are scared, ignorant people who fear change and let's face it, fear that uppity, smooth talking black guy.

As Shania Twain would say, "that don't impress me much".

September 17, 2009 6:26 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

We are trillions of dollars in debt. We have a government that has been run by corrupt officials a generation. Mega-Corporations and the greedy people who run them control our policies. The federal government bombs and kills at its whim. So, yes, I think it's time to clean shop.

Fear change? Are you listening? Are you paying attention? Change is what we want. Change is what we thought we held out hope for. It's not change we fear you poor, narrow-minded naivete: it's the lack of change we fear.

Wake up, people. They are dividing us because it keeps us conquered.

September 17, 2009 10:21 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

How can you possibly say that someone who wants to change everyone in government fears change? Good lord, are you really that dense? OR is it you who actually fears change?

September 17, 2009 10:23 PM  

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